Wednesday, May 19, 2010

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Interview with Edoardo Sanguineti (April 28, 2010) Interview with Douglas Dunn


Di Fabio Giaretta

Edoardo Sanguineti I always imagined I'd like an iconoclastic revolutionary, surly and morose, animated by a fury vanguard ready to overwhelm everything and everyone. Instead, the person I interviewed for the Journal of Vicenza on April 28 after the 2010 meeting of Dire poetry (poetic exhibition held in Vicenza from March to May, which always boast, among its many merits, that it had offered in Vicenza ability to meet the Genoese poet in what most likely was one of his last public appearances) has been totally different from my unfounded fantasies. I have been greatly affected and displaced, as well his sharpness, his darting intellectual vivacity, the subtle irony, his exquisite courtesy, affability, generosity, the lack of any snobbish posting. Our interview was to last fifteen minutes. Needless to say, it lasted much longer. Sanguinetti was a great conversationalist. As he wrote Gnoli Antonio, he knew "to be intriguing, light, strange, paradoxical, as a late fruit of libertine thought." From that world he had inherited "the clarity of view, the capacity and taste for provocative orality that lets you easily wrap immorality." Sanguineti fact disliked 'the conventions, predictability, excess order, uplifting speeches. " When I was forced to turn off the recorder because it demanded for dinner, I had a thousand questions in mind that I wanted to ask him. I was planning to expand our call this interview, but now unfortunately no longer possible. Remains the privilege of having been able to meet. (Here I wish to thank Stefano Strazzabosco, curator of the praiseworthy, for allowing this meeting). Here are the complete interview, output in the form a bit 'in the Giornale di Vicenza reduced of May 4, 2010.
How important do you think had the neoavanguardia and Group 63?
Credo sia stato un fenomeno importante non tanto in quanto gruppo di per sé ma soprattutto perché sciolse una specie di tabù. La cosa si può anticipare perché nel ’61 esce l’antologia dei Novissimi curata da Giuliani. Quella fu una rottura nella poesia italiana molto forte. Quasi tutti eravamo poeti, in tutto cinque, che avevano già pubblicato, però la raccolta dei nostri testi insieme diventò una sorta di manifesto e produsse un effetto molto forte. Cominciava un’epoca molto diversa. Come disse Arbasino, era ammesso che l’ansia di nuovo si manifestasse in America, in Europa, ad esempio con la nouvelle vague, le nouveau roman e via discorrendo ma non in Italia. Anche chi leggeva libri e aveva una some knowledge of Kafka, Joyce, Proust, etc., in the end it was little affected. We then breaking a taboo. The group had the merit of encouraging a new kind of intellectual who was no longer the pure scholar of the Hermetic tradition and even neorelista, that in poetry, however, gave very poor results. Breaking the taboo meant that all of a sudden he thought it was an intellectual current with linguistics, structuralism, psychoanalysis, sociology and so on and not that of pure literary Hermetic tradition. This was the strongest influence, influence that went out with the '68. Politics undoes the group: there are those who have no political interest and there is who is campaigning for this or that party, not necessarily the same.
What legacy is left today of that experience?
She was no longer to confess. What was the strength of a challenge, wanting to be different from the old intellectual figure is no more. The poets go Costanzo show, maybe even often broadcasts the series, like that of Fazio. If one makes a new record, a new book, go there, because it is launched for a week gets attention and success, comes perhaps at the top of the charts, but then, after a while, turn off the enthusiasm. The weight, however, that he had early experience was very strong, all changed the way scrivere, da Pasolini a Luzi a Moravia a Zanzotto. Smisero quel loro atteggiamento che era molto ermetico, neoermetico, postermetico e capirono che facevamo parte dell’Europa e del mondo. Si svecchia insomma la poesia italiana.
Nelle sue poesie si nota una grandissima attenzione per la corporalità e per la fisiologia. Per quale ragione?
Ci sono molte ragioni. Prima di tutto io sono un materialista, proprio nel senso del materialismo storico. L’anima per me coincide con il mondo psichico, che certamente ha una sua esistenza se interpretato soprattutto in termini psicanalitici. Io poi con gli anni sono diventato sempre più groddeckiano. Groddeck era una specie di strano personaggio che diceva alcune cose assai poco attendibili but he also had extraordinary insights. Freud admired him a lot, even if tamed, as a whole had different ideas, but the concept of Es understood as unconscious deep, took it back from him. We are bodies. This is my basic idea. Telling a story of an individual is first and foremost the story of a body. We are born animals, then we try to domesticate them socially, however, move from nature to history is a difficult thing. Switching from the original bestiality in an attempt to domestication, culture and historicity, is a terrible fatigue for those who have to do it is for those who must implement them, for a child and adult to become conscious is also laborious and exhausting for who cares. Taming a baby is a hard thing. Then there are certainly more subjective reasons, that is a strong interest in the theme of the body, first as the body of pleasure, as a place of ecstasy, which involves the whole sphere of eroticism and desire, and secondly as place of suffering, of suffering and finally disintegration and death.
His research is based on the art knows well how to write badly. What did he mean by this paradox?
was a paradox because he wanted to reject the style. There is a verse of mine that says today is not my style to have style. On the one hand means you do not want to lock me in a way of writing, in style. So in every book I do, even in translation, in the essays, I try to address new issues. On the other hand do not have style in the usual sense of the word. Being a man who has a style is to have good manners and all. Rejecting a style, in this sense, means giving up that kind of education that often hides un'insincerità courteous, a false kindness. This idea was born in Holland. I was in Holland with a German poet. We talked about the art of writing bad starting with the problem of translation. Knowing how to write badly, that people's eyes may appear as a lack of style and elegance, is a way of trying to tell the truth. The
his verses over the years have opened up more to the everyday. In his poem, recipe reads: To prepare a poem, take a little fact true (possibly fresh daily) ... How come she was born in this need?
The poem is very ironic that she mentions, looks like a cooking recipe. I tried to address the everyday. This poetics of small true fact has become dominant in a long phase of my writing though, as usual, trying not to lock in style. But this recognition of the fact true, where are indicated the places, people are recognized, there is the number of hotel room, this excess of precision I tried a lot. I tried to switch from a poem relatively much more abstract, we use this term for a poem iperconcreta. Existential or evidence as it was once a term fell out of fashion, the evidence for the existence.
What is your opinion on contemporary poetry?
As I mentioned before, with the end of the seventies, not only in Italy, the poem becomes a matter of success. You want to sell. The attempt to commodify it was exactly the opposite of what the avant-gardes had practiced. They supported the idea of \u200b\u200bthe goods and therefore were not against creating museums. We had tried to return as a strong point of the idea. Much of this effect has been weakened, however, breaking completely. Are still widely used elements began only in the group, such as certain modes of language, but all the strength context, it was turned off. You want success.
In our commercialized world, what should the poem?
I think the problem is, and this is a historical materialist, able to be realistic. Of course she will tell me, and anyone else would tell me, what it means to be realistic? That's the problem. Obviously each of us has an opinion and the reality of what the true representation. Gramsci said something very important: the culture is not important have new ideas, anyone could dream worlds beautiful pink and the rest of the themes of this kind were already present in Marx and Engels. We must endeavor to indicate the lines of development, which are continuous, because the world is constantly changing. So if I listen to the news, read newspapers, I can tell, so I have to constantly upgrade my way of perceiving reality. This is the problem. From this point of view, it is very important to end the political position that can take an author. What is important is that one side is via a drive anarchic original of revolt and protest, and on the other hand, the ability to say: this is reality. This affects very little today. The poets say, we are not engaged, left and right do not mean anything.
His poems always have a very playful character. This is also evident in unpublished sonnet that she wrote for Vicenza ...
poetry has taken over more and more forms of wordplay, but not free, next to the search for contrainte, of compulsion. Write a sonnet means accepting certain rules. If the rule is accepted by exaggerating the wiles of complication and autocostringimento, it means that you are not looking so pure game but to experiment with new forms of language. The sonnet I wrote for Vicenza in the current state is perhaps the most acrobatic sonnet I made for the complications of construction, the allusions that are present there. So there is an aspect of the game. There is a famous phrase of Hölderlin, who liked to Heidegger, who says poetry is the most serious game there is. I believe that this seemingly game, fun, can become a very serious instrument. Change a word, a verse, complicated, is not an arbitrary game, but very serious because it draws attention to the language and words. We must be careful with the words you use. You must bring attention to the weight that has language. Tell me how you talk and tell you who you are.
You have defined an optimist catastrophic. What do you mean exactly with this definition?
catastrophic optimism stems from this: I think we are on the threshold of an economic and social catastrophe without border. This is getting closer. Today happened to Greece, Portugal, tomorrow we'll also. Is happening everywhere, the United States are already fully invested, I do not like Obama at all. The only ones who play a policy, may like it or not, very smart, are the Chinese and Indians. Optimism is linked instead to what he said Gramsci: the optimism of the will and pessimism of reason. Just because I am a pessimist and think that the catastrophic disaster has already occurred, it is just simply di prenderne coscienza, bisogna cercare di moltiplicare l’ottimismo della volontà. Il tempo è pochissimo. È necessario che rinasca una coscienza di classe della massa enorme di proletari e sottoproletari di fronte alle élite di potere che è dei Putin, degli Obama, dei Berlusconi. Bisogna riprendere una coscienza critica di classe. Adoro quello che diceva Benjamin: Quello che ha rovinato il mondo è l’idea socialdemocratica riformistica per cui bisogna pensare alla felicità dei figli. Lui diceva invece che il problema è vendicare le sofferenze dei padri. La poesia può servire a far prendere coscienza di come stanno le cose.
Sanguineti quindi è ancora un poeta rivoluzionario…
Sì, yes is a word I like very much. We need not reform but revolution in the Marxian sense of the word.
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Here is the sonnet, which he dedicated to Vicenza Edoardo Sanguineti: As you can see the initials of each verse form Vicenza (first seven lines) and Azneciv (last seven verses). Moreover, every word of every verse begins with the same initial letter of the word. It 'a sonnet a bit' particularly since the two triplets instead of being at the end are at the center, framed by two quatrains.
Sonnet Vicenza

Extensive verses virile, vital,
in envy, in innocent businesses,
clash with columns, strongly
Ezzeliniane, highlight, extended:

new nodes, in the noble dwarf
limping, blasts zolforose
They learn Astati macaroons, arcane:

Asparagus Andrew, water loving,
Zeno areas silenced, crocuses, storytellers
newage, trinkets:

's Eunomia, endemonicamente
Cangrandesche, cryptoporticoes, churches
Enchanted, ieromanticamente:
vicus I see, under vespaiolese: