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Interview with Edoardo Sanguineti (April 28, 2010) Interview with Douglas Dunn

Di Fabio Giaretta

Edoardo Sanguineti I always imagined I'd like an iconoclastic revolutionary, surly and morose, animated by a fury vanguard ready to overwhelm everything and everyone. Instead, the person I interviewed for the Journal of Vicenza on April 28 after the 2010 meeting of Dire poetry (poetic exhibition held in Vicenza from March to May, which always boast, among its many merits, that it had offered in Vicenza ability to meet the Genoese poet in what most likely was one of his last public appearances) has been totally different from my unfounded fantasies. I have been greatly affected and displaced, as well his sharpness, his darting intellectual vivacity, the subtle irony, his exquisite courtesy, affability, generosity, the lack of any snobbish posting. Our interview was to last fifteen minutes. Needless to say, it lasted much longer. Sanguinetti was a great conversationalist. As he wrote Gnoli Antonio, he knew "to be intriguing, light, strange, paradoxical, as a late fruit of libertine thought." From that world he had inherited "the clarity of view, the capacity and taste for provocative orality that lets you easily wrap immorality." Sanguineti fact disliked 'the conventions, predictability, excess order, uplifting speeches. " When I was forced to turn off the recorder because it demanded for dinner, I had a thousand questions in mind that I wanted to ask him. I was planning to expand our call this interview, but now unfortunately no longer possible. Remains the privilege of having been able to meet. (Here I wish to thank Stefano Strazzabosco, curator of the praiseworthy, for allowing this meeting). Here are the complete interview, output in the form a bit 'in the Giornale di Vicenza reduced of May 4, 2010.
How important do you think had the neoavanguardia and Group 63?
Credo sia stato un fenomeno importante non tanto in quanto gruppo di per sé ma soprattutto perché sciolse una specie di tabù. La cosa si può anticipare perché nel ’61 esce l’antologia dei Novissimi curata da Giuliani. Quella fu una rottura nella poesia italiana molto forte. Quasi tutti eravamo poeti, in tutto cinque, che avevano già pubblicato, però la raccolta dei nostri testi insieme diventò una sorta di manifesto e produsse un effetto molto forte. Cominciava un’epoca molto diversa. Come disse Arbasino, era ammesso che l’ansia di nuovo si manifestasse in America, in Europa, ad esempio con la nouvelle vague, le nouveau roman e via discorrendo ma non in Italia. Anche chi leggeva libri e aveva una some knowledge of Kafka, Joyce, Proust, etc., in the end it was little affected. We then breaking a taboo. The group had the merit of encouraging a new kind of intellectual who was no longer the pure scholar of the Hermetic tradition and even neorelista, that in poetry, however, gave very poor results. Breaking the taboo meant that all of a sudden he thought it was an intellectual current with linguistics, structuralism, psychoanalysis, sociology and so on and not that of pure literary Hermetic tradition. This was the strongest influence, influence that went out with the '68. Politics undoes the group: there are those who have no political interest and there is who is campaigning for this or that party, not necessarily the same.
What legacy is left today of that experience?
She was no longer to confess. What was the strength of a challenge, wanting to be different from the old intellectual figure is no more. The poets go Costanzo show, maybe even often broadcasts the series, like that of Fazio. If one makes a new record, a new book, go there, because it is launched for a week gets attention and success, comes perhaps at the top of the charts, but then, after a while, turn off the enthusiasm. The weight, however, that he had early experience was very strong, all changed the way scrivere, da Pasolini a Luzi a Moravia a Zanzotto. Smisero quel loro atteggiamento che era molto ermetico, neoermetico, postermetico e capirono che facevamo parte dell’Europa e del mondo. Si svecchia insomma la poesia italiana.
Nelle sue poesie si nota una grandissima attenzione per la corporalità e per la fisiologia. Per quale ragione?
Ci sono molte ragioni. Prima di tutto io sono un materialista, proprio nel senso del materialismo storico. L’anima per me coincide con il mondo psichico, che certamente ha una sua esistenza se interpretato soprattutto in termini psicanalitici. Io poi con gli anni sono diventato sempre più groddeckiano. Groddeck era una specie di strano personaggio che diceva alcune cose assai poco attendibili but he also had extraordinary insights. Freud admired him a lot, even if tamed, as a whole had different ideas, but the concept of Es understood as unconscious deep, took it back from him. We are bodies. This is my basic idea. Telling a story of an individual is first and foremost the story of a body. We are born animals, then we try to domesticate them socially, however, move from nature to history is a difficult thing. Switching from the original bestiality in an attempt to domestication, culture and historicity, is a terrible fatigue for those who have to do it is for those who must implement them, for a child and adult to become conscious is also laborious and exhausting for who cares. Taming a baby is a hard thing. Then there are certainly more subjective reasons, that is a strong interest in the theme of the body, first as the body of pleasure, as a place of ecstasy, which involves the whole sphere of eroticism and desire, and secondly as place of suffering, of suffering and finally disintegration and death.
His research is based on the art knows well how to write badly. What did he mean by this paradox?
was a paradox because he wanted to reject the style. There is a verse of mine that says today is not my style to have style. On the one hand means you do not want to lock me in a way of writing, in style. So in every book I do, even in translation, in the essays, I try to address new issues. On the other hand do not have style in the usual sense of the word. Being a man who has a style is to have good manners and all. Rejecting a style, in this sense, means giving up that kind of education that often hides un'insincerità courteous, a false kindness. This idea was born in Holland. I was in Holland with a German poet. We talked about the art of writing bad starting with the problem of translation. Knowing how to write badly, that people's eyes may appear as a lack of style and elegance, is a way of trying to tell the truth. The
his verses over the years have opened up more to the everyday. In his poem, recipe reads: To prepare a poem, take a little fact true (possibly fresh daily) ... How come she was born in this need?
The poem is very ironic that she mentions, looks like a cooking recipe. I tried to address the everyday. This poetics of small true fact has become dominant in a long phase of my writing though, as usual, trying not to lock in style. But this recognition of the fact true, where are indicated the places, people are recognized, there is the number of hotel room, this excess of precision I tried a lot. I tried to switch from a poem relatively much more abstract, we use this term for a poem iperconcreta. Existential or evidence as it was once a term fell out of fashion, the evidence for the existence.
What is your opinion on contemporary poetry?
As I mentioned before, with the end of the seventies, not only in Italy, the poem becomes a matter of success. You want to sell. The attempt to commodify it was exactly the opposite of what the avant-gardes had practiced. They supported the idea of \u200b\u200bthe goods and therefore were not against creating museums. We had tried to return as a strong point of the idea. Much of this effect has been weakened, however, breaking completely. Are still widely used elements began only in the group, such as certain modes of language, but all the strength context, it was turned off. You want success.
In our commercialized world, what should the poem?
I think the problem is, and this is a historical materialist, able to be realistic. Of course she will tell me, and anyone else would tell me, what it means to be realistic? That's the problem. Obviously each of us has an opinion and the reality of what the true representation. Gramsci said something very important: the culture is not important have new ideas, anyone could dream worlds beautiful pink and the rest of the themes of this kind were already present in Marx and Engels. We must endeavor to indicate the lines of development, which are continuous, because the world is constantly changing. So if I listen to the news, read newspapers, I can tell, so I have to constantly upgrade my way of perceiving reality. This is the problem. From this point of view, it is very important to end the political position that can take an author. What is important is that one side is via a drive anarchic original of revolt and protest, and on the other hand, the ability to say: this is reality. This affects very little today. The poets say, we are not engaged, left and right do not mean anything.
His poems always have a very playful character. This is also evident in unpublished sonnet that she wrote for Vicenza ...
poetry has taken over more and more forms of wordplay, but not free, next to the search for contrainte, of compulsion. Write a sonnet means accepting certain rules. If the rule is accepted by exaggerating the wiles of complication and autocostringimento, it means that you are not looking so pure game but to experiment with new forms of language. The sonnet I wrote for Vicenza in the current state is perhaps the most acrobatic sonnet I made for the complications of construction, the allusions that are present there. So there is an aspect of the game. There is a famous phrase of Hölderlin, who liked to Heidegger, who says poetry is the most serious game there is. I believe that this seemingly game, fun, can become a very serious instrument. Change a word, a verse, complicated, is not an arbitrary game, but very serious because it draws attention to the language and words. We must be careful with the words you use. You must bring attention to the weight that has language. Tell me how you talk and tell you who you are.
You have defined an optimist catastrophic. What do you mean exactly with this definition?
catastrophic optimism stems from this: I think we are on the threshold of an economic and social catastrophe without border. This is getting closer. Today happened to Greece, Portugal, tomorrow we'll also. Is happening everywhere, the United States are already fully invested, I do not like Obama at all. The only ones who play a policy, may like it or not, very smart, are the Chinese and Indians. Optimism is linked instead to what he said Gramsci: the optimism of the will and pessimism of reason. Just because I am a pessimist and think that the catastrophic disaster has already occurred, it is just simply di prenderne coscienza, bisogna cercare di moltiplicare l’ottimismo della volontà. Il tempo è pochissimo. È necessario che rinasca una coscienza di classe della massa enorme di proletari e sottoproletari di fronte alle élite di potere che è dei Putin, degli Obama, dei Berlusconi. Bisogna riprendere una coscienza critica di classe. Adoro quello che diceva Benjamin: Quello che ha rovinato il mondo è l’idea socialdemocratica riformistica per cui bisogna pensare alla felicità dei figli. Lui diceva invece che il problema è vendicare le sofferenze dei padri. La poesia può servire a far prendere coscienza di come stanno le cose.
Sanguineti quindi è ancora un poeta rivoluzionario…
Sì, yes is a word I like very much. We need not reform but revolution in the Marxian sense of the word.

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Here is the sonnet, which he dedicated to Vicenza Edoardo Sanguineti: As you can see the initials of each verse form Vicenza (first seven lines) and Azneciv (last seven verses). Moreover, every word of every verse begins with the same initial letter of the word. It 'a sonnet a bit' particularly since the two triplets instead of being at the end are at the center, framed by two quatrains.

Sonnet Vicenza

Extensive verses virile, vital,
in envy, in innocent businesses,
clash with columns, strongly
Ezzeliniane, highlight, extended:

new nodes, in the noble dwarf
limping, blasts zolforose
They learn Astati macaroons, arcane:

Asparagus Andrew, water loving,
Zeno areas silenced, crocuses, storytellers
newage, trinkets:

's Eunomia, endemonicamente
Cangrandesche, cryptoporticoes, churches
Enchanted, ieromanticamente:
vicus I see, under vespaiolese:

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(Pubblico in forma più ampia e leggermente modificata questa intervista a Douglas Dunn, uscita ne Il giornale di Vicenza il 5 maggio del 2009)

di Fabio Giaretta

Da quarant’anni Douglas Dunn, uno dei più importanti poeti inglesi contemporanei, cerca di catturare con i suoi versi la musica di ciò che accade. Quello che subito colpisce nelle sue poesie è la totale apertura dialogante nei confronti del reale e delle sue caleidoscopiche manifestazioni. Nonostante il suo valore, questo poeta è però ancora poco noto in Italia. Lo dimostra il fatto che l’unico libro che possiamo leggere in italiano, curato e tradotto da Marco Fazzini, è la preziosa raccolta di testi scelti Long Ago (Lugo: Sloth Editions, 2003). Douglas Dunn
We interviewed with the collaboration of Marco Fazzini and we thank them.
When he realized they could become a writer?
I always wanted to be a writer but I realized that it can become a few years after the publication of my first book of Terry Street in 1969. Since the late sixties I then lived for about twenty years of writing by the employee magazine, the reviewer, writing short stories ...
She was born and lives in Scotland. What are the traits that characterize more specifically Scottish his poetry?
I do not feel very characteristic as a writer Scottish. I aspire to be eclectic.
His poems always have a very strong charge realistic but also much scope is left to the imagination. What relationship is created between these two dimensions?
Many times the details of daily life trigger the imagination but also the spiritual dimension of life and writing. So these two are very interconnected.
There are some common traits that characterize all of the collections he has written so far?
The desire to draw poetry from what's happening, understand the music of what happens.
She has always considered the poet Philip Larkin's mentor. Can you tell us how it has influenced the his life and his poetry?
has undoubtedly had a great influence. It 'been a friend with me who behaved with great dignity. He had a big influence not only on me but also on the British landscape, while living, like me, on the edge of the literary world. One thing I admired about him was the very sense of humor. I got this feature in many of my collections, though unfortunately the first thing that gets lost in translation.
Which authors have most influenced you? There are some Italian poets among his literary models?
Shakespeare certainly. Some authors medieval Scotland. When I was a student I was very influenced by Andrew Marvell, John Milton, Robert Burns. I have read and reread Auden, my copy of his selected poems is destroyed by what I've browsed through the years.
Among the Italians that I admire very much Leopardi also translated.
How it came into contact with the poetry of Leopardi?
E 'was a coincidence. When Cossiga was president of the republic, was to visit Scotland for the Edinburgh University awarded him an honorary degree. E 'gave rise to the idea of \u200b\u200btranslating Leopardi, who was the favorite poet of Cossiga, to various Scottish poets. So I was contacted by some texts. From there I became interested in the poetry of Leopardi I liked particolarmente. Però c’è stata una crisi proprio nei giorni in cui Cossiga doveva venire in Scozia quindi per ironia della sorte non è venuto a prendere né la laurea né il volume con le poesie di Leopardi.
In Elegies, raccolta poetica del 1985 incentrata sulla malattia e sulla morte della sua prima moglie, Lesley Balfour, la reticenza presente nei suoi libri precedenti ha lasciato posto ad un maggior denudamento, il suo io non appare più celato…
Se sei un poeta devi avere il coraggio dell’onestà nei confronti di ciò che ti è accaduto, altrimenti resta in te qualcosa di represso. Se non lo fai uscire, cessi di essere un vero poeta.
Il libro oggi in Gran Bretagna is considered a classic. How did you experience the great success of this collection?
I've very interested in the success of this collection. For me it made the difference. I know doctors who use the book for medical purposes and they give to their patients. I still, after so many years, several letters from readers who thank me for writing it. For me it was a way to remember the love I have experienced. When I learned that my wife's parents also endorsed this I knew I had done the right thing.
Terry Street, the street of a proletarian district of Hull where she lived for a time, is the protagonist of his first poetry collection. Since today has been dismantled, we can say that, somehow, his poetry has saved? In truth
Terry Street was falling apart and then you went to old age. It was still a place degraded and unpleasant. So I would say that my book rather than save Terry Street has given an extra push to go away.
people who lived in Terry Street were not happy of my poems. I among others was not the place, I was a Scotsman transplanted to England, specifically in Hull, so I was always considered an outsider. I remember a newspaper article came from a very ironic title: the fame has arrived at Terry Street, like it or not. Why in
his works, has gradually increased the severity metric?
I love the verse and, especially in the last twenty years during which I was a professor at the university, I loved the fact that you have free time to devote to it. The poems, as well as to target the content must also have a thickness linked to the verse.
What is the purpose for her poetry in contemporary society?
First, the language should help to combat the uncertainty and the collapse that increasingly characterize. Some people think that poetry can be a substitute for religion. I do not think it's a substitute, but has the same function because of religion deals with the truth. How religion can make life more meaningful. These ideas do not help to write some good poems, but should accompany every true poet.
In Italy as regards the poem there is a paradoxical situation: many write poetry, but few read it. This also applies to Britain?
Probably the same happens in Britain. I judge a poetry prize and I arrived about 1500 texts to be examined ... And it's a minor prize. There are tens of thousands of people who graduate but few buy poetry books. Perhaps we should ask whether there is something wrong in poetry rather than in those who do not buy books. Adrian Mitchell, an English poet who died recently, said that most people ignore the poets because most of the poets ignore the people.

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BIOGRAPHY: Douglas Dunn, poet, novelist and essayist, Scotland, was born in 1942 in Inchinnan in Renfrewshire. He received a BA in English literature at the University of Hull, where he taught. He taught English at St. Andrews University, becoming director of the Scottish Studies Institute. Member of the Royal Society of Literature in 2003 was appointed Officer of the Order of the British Empire. La sua vasta produzione in versi, che lo consacra come uno degli autori più importanti della poesia inglese contemporanea, ha inizio con la silloge Terry Street (1969), premiata con lo Scottish Arts Council Book Award e con il Somerset Maugham Award. Seguono The happier life (1972) e Love or Nothing (1974), con cui l'autore riceve lo Scottish Arts Council Book Award e il Geoffrey Faber Memorial Prize. Escono successivamente le raccolte Barbarians (1979) e St Kilda's Parliament (1981), che vince lo Hawthornden Prize. È del 1982 il poema Europa's lover. La silloge intitolata Elegies, edita nel 1985, è uno dei suoi capolavori, per la quale gli sono conferiti il Whitbread Book of the Year, il Geoffrey Faber Memorial Prize, lo Hawthornden Prize e il Cholmondeley Award. Successivamente vengono pubblicati i volumi di poesie Northlight (1988) e Dante's drum-kit (1993). Nel 2000 escono le raccolte poetiche The Donkey's Ears e The Year's Afternoon. Marco Fazzini ha curato e tradotto in italiano una selezione di testi dell'autore nel florilegio Long ago e altre poesie scelte 1969-2000 (Edizioni del Bradipo, Lugo di Romagna 2003).dunn si è dedicato anche alla narrativa, componendo due libri di racconti: Secret Villages (1985) e Girlfriends and Boyfriends (1995). È autore di saggi (Under the influence: douglas dunn on Philip Larkin, 1987), curatore di numerose antologie e traduttore dal francese (Andromaque di Racine, 1990). Collabora con vari giornali come the "Glasgow Herald, the New Yorker and the Times Literary Supplement and has written comedy for radio and television.